Former National Security Agency technical director William Binney participated in an online meeting July 15 of the New Jersey Burke for Senate campaign. His remarks were followed by an extensive exchange with other participants. The following edited transcript includes about three-quarters of the exchange. Questions are abridged, intended only to indicate the topics discussed by Mr. Binney.

William Binney: We invented a system that basically would not only have detected the 9/11 operation before it occurred, but also all the other terrorist attacks in the world, before and after. But the problem was also that it was a system that would have uncovered all of the criminal activity of our government employees, and of our secret intelligence agencies, and also others in the world, too. It was something that would lay out all of the patterns of human activity.

Eric Draper
President George W. Bush and his Vice President, Dick Cheney.

Right photo: CIA
Left: Former NSA Director Gen. Michael Hayden; right: former CIA Director George Tenet.

I basically left the NSA because [our government] used its systems—turning them around to spy on everybody in the United States. So they were there, looking at everyone, and profiling and characterizing everybody’s activity, who they communicate with, everything. And it’s still going on. It started with George W. Bush. Bush, [Dick] Cheney, [Michael] Hayden, and George Tenet, were the key players who started this program. And then, under Obama, he doubled down and just funded a lot of things, including the building of that very large storage facility out in Utah, and also one being done at Fort Meade—the idea being that they could store all the data, all the content and metadata of everybody communicating in the world, and retroactively analyze any of that that they want.

Now the problem here, as I see it, is that this is one of the founding things they are doing, they’re also looking at tracking people’s movements, which they are already doing under a program called TreasureMap. And it takes all the GPS locational data, on your phones, your cell phones, and your computers, and anything that they can tack on that is moving around, and they can trace that throughout the day—where you go, and how long you’ve been there.

Now, take that in the context of also assembling all of that data and information about what you are saying to other people, and you’re getting back to what I liken to what happened in the Weimar Republic in 1933.

That’s exactly what the Nazis did, in trying to control people, first finding out who is doing what, what their intentions were. And that started with the special order, using Article 48 of the Weimar constitution, that was issued in 1933 after the Reichstag fire. It said, basically, that they could declare anybody a criminal, and put them in a concentration camp, and take them off the street. That also is what is being done under the U.S. National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 in Section 1021, signed into law by President Obama. It says that the President can declare anybody a terrorist, and have the military—in violation of Posse Comitatus—have the military take them off the street, incarcerate them indefinitely, with no due process. That’s exactly what the special decree that the Nazis issued in 1933 said.

Electronic Frontier Foundation/employee
Aerial photo of the NSA’s Utah Data Center in 2014.

So, I think we are currently,— and if you look at the attempted coup against President Trump and the players in that, which are primarily the intelligence people, plus also others in the government, attempting, mostly Democratic, but some Republicans I know. And the idea was they were trying to get rid of him because they don’t like his positions, his policies, or any of that. And so, because he was also an outsider, he was not controllable nor influenced. I mean, he didn’t need money, he had plenty of that. He didn’t owe anybody anything; he went in there trying to help and do the right thing for the American public from my view, anyway.

This whole coup attempt against him involved this “deep state,” the secret governments, and all that underneath which were the existing bureaucrats and politically appointed people in government, in various forms, like the FBI, and the CIA, and NSA, and also other agencies like the State Department, and so on. They were all collectively working together to perform this coup and they came up with a concocted Russiagate series of stories, which we could prove was absolutely false.

In fact, we could prove that all the data that WikiLeaks published from the DNC (Democratic National Committee)—that was downloaded on the 23rd and 25th of May, and also the 26th of August of 2016—all of that carried the signatures of being downloaded to a thumb drive or a CD-ROM, and physically transported. So, we could prove that in a court of law. In fact, I put that in sworn affidavits that I submitted in the Roger Stone case and also in the General Flynn case. And the judges would not let my testimony in. Obviously, they didn’t care about truth in their courts.

So the point is, that shows you how deep this secret state is operating, including judges. Well, to my mind that throws me back to what President Lincoln said in his dedication statement and speech in Gettysburg, after the Battle of Gettysburg. He said, “We’re now in a time where, it’s being tested whether a government ‘by the people, of the people, and for the people’ can continue to exist on this planet.” And that’s really where we are. I looked at this as our most threatened position of our government policy and our way of life, since the Civil War.

And so, if we don’t start standing up and opposing this, and opposing what these people are doing to cause this kind of corrupt coup and lies being promulgated by the existing mainstream media, who only are part of it, that’s the other part of it. They control the media. They control what information is disseminated and what people can see, and that’s how you affect people’s thinking. You can convince them to do things that are absolutely wrong. And that’s what they are doing by repetition, this theory of fallacy by repetition, from many different places, from the Democratic Party, and different people coming out saying it, and from the mainstream media, and different TV stations, saying that the Russians actually did something.

Well, I’ve been hard pressed to find anything the Russians did in the 2016 election, let alone anything they’re trying to do in the 2020 election. There’s no evidence of them doing anything!

In fact, that was challenged when the Rosenstein indictment [of 12 Russians] was going through the court cases. The indictment alleged that there were certain bots for the Russian government, naming the Internet Research Agency (IRA) out of St. Petersburg as one; these entities were labeled as trolls, alleged to be influencing the election. Well, the IRA of St. Petersburg sent lawyers in to challenge that statement and allegation in court. And when they did, the government could not prove anything or any relationship with them and the Russian government! And so, the judge there really censored them and said you are no longer permitted, you are ordered not to in any way infer that they are in any way connected with the Russian government.

Well, that just shows you the fallacy and the fabrication that our government, the Department of Justice under Rosenstein and Holder and all of that, that’s corruption that’s gotten to this point to where they would fabricate information and use it in a court of law.

They thought that because they were charging Russians, that they could never take it into court, [because] they would never come here. But in fact, that didn’t work out for them. How many mainstream media stations, TV, radio, any of that, how many of them have actually said something about this? That the entire allegations within the Rosenstein indictments, Guccifer 2.0, DCLeaks, and all of them, were all fabrications, and provable fabrications in court? And none of the mainstream media is saying this! So, I can say we’re in a real crisis here. We have to break through this, and we have to stand up. If we don’t start standing up, we are going to lose our country.

Diane Sare: Bill, while you’re here, I want to ask you to say a little more about that, because former CIA Director John Brennan went to MSNBC as an intelligence analyst; former FBI Special Agent Josh Campbell, who worked closely with James Comey, is now a CNN law enforcement analyst; and the notorious Lisa Page, the cashiered FBI lawyer, is now a legal analyst at MSNBC. It is rather amazing that we can attack other nations for allegedly not having a free press, while we have all these intelligence agents, just naming a few here, in high profile roles—they don’t try to hide it—in our media. I don’t know if you have more on that.

Cancillería del Ecuador/David G. Silvers
Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London, August 18, 2016.

Binney: Well, you take for example what they’re doing to Julian Assange. Look at what the U.S. government and the U.K. government are doing. He’s being held in the U.K. government in prison, without being charged with anything, only holding him for a review as to whether he could be extradited to the U.S., for actually—what is his crime? He told the truth. Okay? Everything he’s ever done, as far as I know, has been the truth. Nobody has ever contradicted anything he’s published. And the mainstream media really is jealous of him because he was always ahead of them in doing that. You know, and he did it on countries around the world, showing all the criminality and violence being perpetuated by these governments. Well, what is wrong with telling the truth?

The problem is this mainstream media and they’re a spokesperson for the hidden, secret, deep state government. The deep state government is the one that doesn’t want anybody to help [us] know the truth about what they’re doing, because then, they might even be charged with criminal activity and go to jail.

Attorney General William Barr.

And that’s why I’m waiting for [Attorney General William] Barr and [United States Attorney John] Durham to say exactly what they say. They’ve got plenty of evidence of all the crimes these people have committed. All they have to do is, also look in the NSA data, which is where I told them to go, by the way. Because NSA has a record of everybody and all their actions up there. And they can retroactively analyze all of it and go back and show all these crimes. Also, they can show things, like the Epstein network in the world, to get back at the pedophilia. That’s all there, too!

There’s any number of things they can do to use the NSA data, which they’re not, because it would implicate them. That’s why they got rid of that program we had to monitor everything, because it would have monitored and found all this crime. They had to get rid of it, otherwise they would be exposed for the crimes they’re committing. That’s what’s going on; everybody is covering up for each other. They involves judges too. I don’t know how much of this extends to judges, but NSA, of course, has the record of information that would allow us to discover that.

So, my point is, this is really criminal, violating 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th Amendments to the Constitution primarily; but there’s other crimes being committed, like cover-up, obstruction of justice, solicitation. It’s really sedition and even up to treason inside our country, and this is the situation we’re in right now, whether or not people know that. The coup attempt against President Trump was simply one of the things that they felt that they had to do otherwise, and so they started to surface, and you started to see all the criminals coming out in the FBI, CIA, and NSA, as the main ones, because they’re the main ones that all have the information about people. And Julian Assange—they’ve got to crucify him, because he’s telling the truth.

EIRNS/Jason Ross
VIPS Member Ray McGovern, speaking at a town hall meeting in Manhattan sponsored by EIR, September 9, 2017.

Sare: Bill, if I could ask you—I was really excited that Roger Stone brought forward your evidence, and your case, where he invoked your name, as well as Ray McGovern’s, on Sean Hannity’s program. There must be 5 million people who watched it. And Hannity has been one of the worst, who continues to say, “oh it’s Russian, Russian, Russian interference”—even though the evidence has been presented repeatedly on his own program that it’s not. And this goes along with the fact that Stone had his sentence commuted. This seems to me like a really clear indication of an opportunity. So, I want to ask you your view on that.

Binney: You know, I was prepared to testify to Mueller and his group, or any of the committees in Congress, but nobody called. The only person who said anything was the President. He called Pompeo when he was director of the CIA and said, if you wanted to know any factual information about Russiagate, you needed to talk to me. You know, I’m sitting here with my computer looking at data that’s open to the public in the internet, you know?

DoS/Freddie Everett
Secretary of State Michael R. Pompeo.

And so, I’m wondering, here, we spend about 100-and-something billion dollars every year on our intelligence agencies, all of ’em, 16 of ’em, plus DNI, the 17th one. (They call it the 17th one, but it’s not—that’s just staffers.) But, we spend over $100 billion there and I’m sitting here with this little computer, and I have a few other guys in the U.S., and a couple in the U.K., who are using their own resources; and we’re looking at this data and we figure out from this, it’s very clear. This is forensic data, there is nothing questionable about this: Our probability of error in making the statements we do about the DNC data, is like 1 chance in 2 to the 35,813th power—which is like, one chance in a one followed by 1200 zeros. It’s trillions of times better than DNA [evidence], you know?

Our point is we’re basing everything on fact, nothing on speculation. No hearsay, nothing! It’s actually, simply factual evidence. It’s there, everybody can look at it, everybody can see it, they can test it, they can peer review, they can do anything they want—it’s there for everybody to see. And everyone else is going on speculation—“Oh, so-and-so said the Russians did it”—where is the factual evidence of that occurring?

Now, I saw in the Rosenstein indictment [of the 12 Russian military officers] where he thought to say that GRU agents were going through, penetrating, different sites and seeing things, and somebody asserted to me that that was the NSA data—and that was not NSA data, because NSA data is classified. If they put that in an indictment, they’d have to redact it, especially if they publicly released it. That came from, I believe, something like CrowdStrike or a third party, somebody looking at something else and then feeding that data in. But it’s not NSA data. It’s clearly not something substantiated by anyone in government. So, it’s hearsay as far as the courts are concerned, and it’s also probably manufactured.

And they don’t really say exactly what they say they “exfiltrated.” And yet, here you have the guy who’s the CrowdStrike head at the time [Shawn Henry], who came out and said in his testimony in December of 2017, and he said that we have no evidence that anyone exfiltrated anything! Well, I mean, come on! If he knew that in testimony—and surely Rosenstein knew that, and then he looked at this and said, this allegation from the people who were feeding this data into him—why would he include that without challenging that? Because I think he’s a part of this coup attempt; he’s a part of the rest of it. That’s my opinion: He’s a part of this deep state attempt to get rid of the President.

Daniel Burke: It strikes me, Bill, that this is something similar to the idea of the principle of the flank…. The overwhelming strength of these coup artists is the idea that they have the total domination over all of the data that goes in and out of the country. But what you are laying out, is that this is, in fact, their weakness. Because the very truth of the matter is—the proof that they must know what, in fact, actually happened. And we would be able to find it in the files, and we would be able to prove it.

Binney: You know that’s why, in the ThinThread program, we had the program after the fact, that would monitor what’s called the network logs. For everybody who doesn’t know: When you’re on a network, and you press a button with your mouse, or you type a line of code in, and hit carriage return, that sends a line of code down the network. And that is logged in a network log. So that everything you do on a network—whether you download material, whatever you communicate, whatever instructions you say—that’s recorded in that network log.

That means that all the evidence to show all of the criminal activity by virtually everybody in the world, as long as they ever go on the network, on their phone, or the internet, or chatter, or email—all that stuff is there to retroactively analyze and show the extent of criminality. That’s the problem they didn’t like on the program we invented in 1999, OK? And so NSA said, “No, we’re getting rid of that program, because we don’t want anybody to know what we’re doing.”

And so that’s why they couldn’t find Edward Snowden when he downloaded all that material, because they didn’t know what people were doing on the network. And so, in fact, they don’t even know what he took! And they can’t show it. It is their weakness in the fact that all that information is there, and still stored, and retroactively analyzed; and we can do that, and get back years and see what people have been doing for over, at least, the last decade….